Curse

Notorious Bob · Nov 28, 2009, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Indeed, unfortunately, in ANet's failure to address SF they have been screwing up UW for most other people. When (or IF, don't under estimate failnet) they fix Broken Form, they seriously need to re-balance areas like UW to make them playable again for normal players. Currently UW is only fit for farming, it's certainly no fun to actually play.

Well with the past record of deaf-net with the whole loot nerf/RoK bug issue I'm not going to hold my breathe waiting for ANet to get this right. Expect SF to get nerfed into the stone age, UW to become practically unplayable and prices on dumb mini's to stay in the 100s of ectos.

Unless ANet actually encourage and reward PuGs GW will just continue to stumble along its grindy road to GW2 and switch off.

high priestess anya · Nov 28, 2009, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

godmode builds do not belong in multiplayer RPGs. therefore, shadowform should be nerfed purely on principle. that's all there is to it.

This is, by far the most sensible post in this thread.
Wake up people, just because these farming builds die, dont mean the end of farming and if youre good at the game then you will be just as fast, maybe take a buddy or hero instead of solo.
These nerfed builds present a challenge, are you gunna run from a good fight? I salute all of those who take this by the balls and drain them dry

Blobbob · Nov 28, 2009, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

I would say its people who don't spend hours practicing at a game and memorizing all of the stupid spawn and gimmicks that are supposed to be "challenge". Being good at the game won't help if its your first time there and having mindblade spectre spawn on you after you "skillfully" kill a group of banished dream rider. Its more about how much time someone spent grinding through balanced after balanced figuring out and memorizing little tricks that had nothing to do with skills.

Wait, what? Even with SF you still have to "memorize all of the stupid spawns and gimmicks," so that doesn't change anything. And if you can't beat the areas without SF then that's pretty much the definition of the skill being a crutch.

And, yes, the "challenge" in this game's PvE almost entirely comes from learning how to overcome the game's "stupid spawns and gimmicks." If you can't do that then you're bad at this game's PvE. Now if that's something you even want bother being good at then that's another thing entirely, there's a lot of people who don't even bother with this game's PvE.

Trip555 · Nov 28, 2009, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Indeed, unfortunately, in ANet's failure to address SF they have been screwing up UW for most other people. When (or IF, don't under estimate failnet) they fix Broken Form, they seriously need to re-balance areas like UW to make them playable again for normal players. Currently UW is only fit for farming, it's certainly no fun to actually play.

UW will end up like DoA after the Ursan Nerf: Dead.
Especially if they also kill the slower alternatives like Terratank.

Don't think Arenanet rebalances areas after the SF nerf. Too much time, not enough manpower.

a-kyle · Nov 28, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

i dont see any issue with sf, those who bitch just dont see its use

Mustache Mayhem · Nov 28, 2009, 05:04 PM // 17:04

well moriz has a good point on principle.. it's these other guys like blobbob who you know have never been past the first room in uw

there's 'gimmicks' in every dungeon, but you've never even seen them so why come on here and act like you have? I never ran ursan cause it really was broken- that was the definition of broken skill.. sin uses the skillbar- it varies for different roles

ursan you could have 70 iq and say 'I like a taco smell'.. smash buttons and there you go.. sin is not like that at all.. like a fendi's h/h in hm it works as a great tank.. thommis vsf it's a runner/tanker to the wall in both pugs and h/h.. uw has many roles even in your 'balanced' teams- your looking at hardmode, the sin really is very versatile not to mention quick

the guys who have never seen what we have.. say it's 123- that just shows right there how ignorant you are and everyone who has actually did these runs knows your full of it

Blobbob · Nov 28, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Sorry, could you point out where I said SF is skill less and that it needs to be nerfed? Because you seem to have a better idea on my opinions on the skill than I do. Not caring if it gets nerfed is not the same as hating it or wanting it to get nerfed.

I also like how you can tell if I've done UW or not by if I'm a rabid defender of SF or not.

Mustache Mayhem · Nov 28, 2009, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blobbob

If they nerf SF then the kiddies that use it as a crutch will cry and quit. If they don't touch SF then the people who measure their self worth by how much money they have in a game will cry and quit.

well maybe I was out of line (sorry I do that alot lol- I dunno why) nerfing sf won't have anyone who uses it rage.. your nerfing a skill that is very useful in certain situations

I'm just saying.. the 'kiddies' that use it aren't the ones doing the speed clears

Blobbob · Nov 28, 2009, 05:26 PM // 17:26

I was referring mainly to the people who were threatening to quit if SF got nerfed even before the UW revamp because it would "ruin their farming." Currently it's pretty much needed to beat Dhumm, but there are still people who use it as a crutch for the rest of the game.

edit: It's ok, it happens.

JONO51 · Nov 28, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

Plus SF build is good for players like me to enjoy the game! if and when I cannot find a decent group to go to "elite" area, I could, by playing a support role in a SF build group

Theres plenty of support roles in non sf builds that are easy to play, e.g. imbagon, orders, bip, nuker, bonder, spirit spam. A nerf of sf doesnt mean no more support roles.

--

Lack of reward for 2-3 hours effort is easily fixed. Make the end chest give 2 ectos + 4 golds/summoning stones/minis etc in NM and in HM 4 ectos + 6 golds/summoning stones/minis etc. Hell, you could even make it so the chest ony drops req 9-11 golds if that wasn't enough. And theres all the ectos that result from a longer clear.

Malice Black · Nov 28, 2009, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by JONO51

Theres plenty of support roles in non sf builds that are easy to play, e.g. imbagon, orders, bip, nuker, bonder, spirit spam. A nerf of sf doesnt mean no more support roles.

--

Lack of reward for 2-3 hours effort is easily fixed. Make the end chest give 2 ectos + 4 golds/summoning stones/minis etc in NM and in HM 4 ectos + 6 golds/summoning stones/minis etc. Hell, you could even make it so the chest ony drops req 9-11 golds if that wasn't enough. And theres all the ectos that result from a longer clear.

The issue there is none of the stuff beside ecto would be worth anything, so you gain nothing.

The more golds the chests spit out, the more worthless they become. If they're worthless nobody will farm the chest.

If supply goes up, demand goes down. If demand goes down, the price goes down.

JONO51 · Nov 28, 2009, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

The issue there is none of the stuff beside ecto would be worth anything, so you gain nothing.

The more golds the chests spit out, the more worthless they become. If they're worthless nobody will farm the chest.

If supply goes up, demand goes down. If demand goes down, the price goes down.

The ecto alone is still ~10k-~20k which is pretty fair considering the time spent. Value of golds doesnt matter, just gives an oppurtunity for some easy decent weapons.

Wubbies · Nov 28, 2009, 06:27 PM // 18:27

cant believe this thread still open...must be a ratings thing.

Nerf Skull Crack!

Deakon · Nov 28, 2009, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blobbob

In which case they shouldn't be complaining that the only thing keeping them playing the game takes some time.

They're not... they currently have speed clears. It's you and the anti-SC crowd that are complaining that "the only thing" keeping them playing the game doesn't take long enough to do. You (and others) are basically saying that you don't like the way some people are playing so they should quit the game and leave it to you. You QQ about speed clears and how SF needs to be nerfed and when someone disagrees, you tell them to stop QQing and leave the game. What gives you such entitlement over others?

Blobbob · Nov 28, 2009, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

They're not... they currently have speed clears. It's you and the anti-SC crowd that are complaining that "the only thing" keeping them playing the game doesn't take long enough to do. You (and others) are basically saying that you don't like the way some people are playing so they should quit the game and leave it to you. You QQ about speed clears and how SF needs to be nerfed and when someone disagrees, you tell them to stop QQing and leave the game. What gives you such entitlement over others?

What are you even talking about? Where have I complained about speed clears? Where have I complained about SF? You imagined everything you just accused me of saying.

The post you were originally replying to, which then caused my reply to you, was directed to people saying Anet broke their "no grind" promise and that they need to "fix" it. It was questioning why people even bother working for these 100% optional things who's only purpose is to make your character look different if they feel it requires too much grind. SF wasn't even mentioned once.

Deakon · Nov 28, 2009, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blobbob

What are you even talking about? Where have I complained about speed clears? Where have I complained about SF? You imagined everything you just accused me of saying.

The post you were originally replying to, which then caused my reply to you, was directed to people saying Anet broke their "no grind" promise and that they need to "fix" it. It was questioning why people even bother working for these 100% optional things who's only purpose is to make your character look different if they feel it requires too much grind. SF wasn't even mentioned once.

My apologies. My reply was addressed to you specifically concerning the mentality of "play my way or get out." I also lumped in those anti-SC and anti-SF folks who have that same mentality. (That's why I put the "and others" there. I felt it redundant to do it each time.) I should have done a better job of distinguishing the two with each statement.

This actually goes back to an earlier post in this thread where someone else told me that I should quit playing GW if I was happy with the way it is now. I'm seeing a recurring theme. I see the same crowd that lolz at the "don't like it, don't use it" stance by countering with the "play my way or leave" stance. And they cry about speed clears. They cry about SF. Then when someone disagrees they start with the "stop the QQ." If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny. It's almost like a monotonous comedy skit.

But, just like with Ursan Blessing, they'll eventually give in to all the bitchin'. Which leads me back to my question. Where is this entitlement coming from? Do those who complain loudest have the rights to dictate gameplay?

Again, my apologies. I quoted your post but didn't intend for it to be a directed response.

moriz · Nov 28, 2009, 08:24 PM // 20:24

well, can anyone disprove that "shadow form should be nerfed on principle, because no online RPG should have a godmode build"? if anyone can actually give a good reason WHY shadow form should exist in its current form, then it should not be nerfed. otherwise, it should be nerfed.

i also find it funny that people can complain about this "sense of entitlement", when they are playing the most hilariously broken build in the history of online RPGs and raking in the rewards.

upier · Nov 28, 2009, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

well, can anyone disprove that "shadow form should be nerfed on principle, because no online RPG should have a godmode build"? if anyone can actually give a good reason WHY shadow form should exist in its current form, then it should not be nerfed. otherwise, it should be nerfed.

Because SF is actually one of the few things that is in touch with the insane grind required to reach certain goals.
If the game contains such content as 10 mil being the max Luxon rank, or 10k sweet points, or 10k booze minutes, or 10k chests or ... then the tools that help one achieve those goal need to be equally insane.
And SF is just that.

Blobbob · Nov 28, 2009, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

My apologies. My reply was addressed to you specifically concerning the mentality of "play my way or get out." I also lumped in those anti-SC and anti-SF folks who have that same mentality. (That's why I put the "and others" there. I felt it redundant to do it each time.) I should have done a better job of distinguishing the two with each statement.

This actually goes back to an earlier post in this thread where someone else told me that I should quit playing GW if I was happy with the way it is now. I'm seeing a recurring theme. I see the same crowd that lolz at the "don't like it, don't use it" stance by countering with the "play my way or leave" stance. And they cry about speed clears. They cry about SF. Then when someone disagrees they start with the "stop the QQ." If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny. It's almost like a monotonous comedy skit.

But, just like with Ursan Blessing, they'll eventually give in to all the bitchin'. Which leads me back to my question. Where is this entitlement coming from? Do those who complain loudest have the rights to dictate gameplay?

Again, my apologies. I quoted your post but didn't intend for it to be a directed response.

It's ok.... it seems to be happening a lot in this thread.

And I agree with the sense of entitlement on either side. No matter what Anet decides to do, it baffles the mind that people are making this huge a deal over a single skill. I have confidence that if Anet does nerf SF they'll go back and adjust the recent additions to UW.

As for the "play my way or get out" mentality in my post.... It's not so much I'm saying they should quit, I'm curious why some feel they absolutely must get the rarest items or achievements or why they even "deserve" to get them. The only purpose they serve is as glorified bragging rights, and if there are some that only the most dedicated (time wise) can reasonably get then I don't see why that's a bad thing. They don't provide any kind of mechanical benefit and the game won't suddenly get better once you get them.

In essence, it seems like one of the primary arguments for or against SF is to assuage players' online ego. While there's nothing wrong with being "proud" of your accomplishments, I absolutely do not think Anet should make balance decisions based on this. SF should be nerfed based on if Anet feels it's too powerful, not if it allows "noobs" to earn things too fast (according to the hardcore players, that is) or if people will be upset that they won't be able to get that pretty title or sword as fast as they'd like.

moriz · Nov 28, 2009, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Because SF is actually one of the few things that is in touch with the insane grind required to reach certain goals.
If the game contains such content as 10 mil being the max Luxon rank, or 10k sweet points, or 10k booze minutes, or 10k chests or ... then the tools that help one achieve those goal need to be equally insane.
And SF is just that.

unfortunately that argument only makes sense if those goals actually make gameplay differences. too bad they don't, or make so little difference (as in the case of luxon/kurzick ranks) that they don't matter. since these goals are essentially pointless, there's no need for such an radical solution like shadow form. not to mention, people have accomplished these goals prior to shadow form being permanently maintainable, so it's not like shadow form is even absolutely required.

even then, if these goals are really as desirable/out of reach as you claim, the much better solution is to adjust those title tracks so they are more reasonable. that way, there's still no need for a build that effectively marginalizes 99% of the pve content, what's with it being a godmode build and all.